Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/22/1999 03:20 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         SJR 13-AK NATIVE ON PACIFIC SALMON COMMISSION                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced SJR 13 to be up for consideration.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD, sponsor, explained that as an Athabascan Native he                                                                
had never voted to give up rights.  Mr. Mike Williams brought it to                                                             
his attention that he has never known of any Alaska Native who has                                                              
been involved in a treaty.  There has been a lot of talk about                                                                  
"have Alaska natives at the table," but when the time comes to                                                                  
select the voting people who are going to represent the State of                                                                
Alaska, they are certainly not Alaska natives, and appear to be                                                                 
bureaucrats at first glance and are special interests.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD said he has never disputed his rights under the                                                                    
Constitution, but when people aren't even invited to the table to                                                               
sit down in a bargaining agreement, like the Pacific Salmon Treaty                                                              
that is going to affect their life, he didn't think that was right.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. EDDIE BURKE, Aide to Representative Jerry Sanders, said a very                                                              
interesting statement was given to the House Resources Committee.                                                               
Mr. Dick Hoffman, President, Alaska Troller Association, said that                                                              
there wasn't the caliber of Alaska Native to sit on this Board.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE asked what that private conversation had with the                                                                
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD said he thought it described a mind-set against having                                                             
the people who actually consume the fish at the bargaining table.                                                               
They have a position on it before the people who catch it and sell                                                              
it and they are not at the table.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE said he didn't necessarily disagree with him,                                                                    
especially regarding the U.S./Canada Treaty.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE said he thought that Commission was representing the                                                             
rights of all Alaskans, commercial, subsistence, white, and native                                                              
and he asked for an example of where the people on the Commission                                                               
are not doing there job.  He also asked for an example where                                                                    
natives are being disadvantaged in the process.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD answered since they are closed door meetings, he                                                                   
couldn't say.  He wanted an Alaskan Native added to it.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE asked how they added another commissioner when the                                                               
make up is set by the U.S. Government.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD said that according to the rules, Canada would get one                                                             
more seat also.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE asked where Alaska Natives have been disadvantaged                                                               
by the Commission that represents Alaska.  He said he fails to see                                                              
where this is needed, because he feels that all Alaskans are being                                                              
represented.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD replied if an Alaska Native had been representing                                                                  
subsistence on this Commission, it would have been resolved a long                                                              
time ago.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 420                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KELLY said he had a fundamental problem with this                                                                       
legislation, because the people of Alaska are already represented.                                                              
If you add an Alaskan native, you are beginning to divide things                                                                
racially.  Natives own most of the private land in Alaska and their                                                             
corporations have advantages far above anyone else's corporation.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD said he thought Alaska Natives should have a part of                                                               
a treaty process that will affect them for the next hundred years.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE explained that the reason the natives in Washington                                                              
state have a seat at the table is because of the treaties that                                                                  
involve the tribes with allocations.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLES CONWAY, Assistant Attorney General, added that the makeup                                                             
of the Commission is set by federal statute.  If the resolution                                                                 
goes forward, it should be directed to the Congress.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD responded that our congressional delegation told him                                                               
that the request needs to come through the administration to them,                                                              
because that's the way the original treaty was set up.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVID BEDFORD, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Seiners,                                                                
read Mr. Jim Bacon's testimony.  Mr. Bacon is the co-chair of the                                                               
Northern Panel and is a seiner in Southeast.  The following is part                                                             
of his letter: "I have served on the Northern Panel U.S. Section of                                                             
the Pacific Salmon Commission since 1991.  I currently serve as the                                                             
co-chairman of that body.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The Pacific Salmon Commission was created by the Pacific Salmon                                                                 
Treaty. The United State and Canada struggled through 15 years of                                                               
difficult negotiations to produce the existing treaty.  To add                                                                  
another commissioner to the Pacific Salmon Commission would require                                                             
renegotiating provisions of the Treaty and opening contentious                                                                  
lengthy discussion with no certainty of success.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
However, I would council against pursuing SJR 13 not merely because                                                             
its success is uncertain, but because we do not need it. Alaska's                                                               
delegation to the Treaty fights diligently and, for the most part,                                                              
successfully, on behalf of all Alaskans, native and non-native.                                                                 
The original treaty set management regimes for fisheries that                                                                   
impact salmon stocks that spawn in one nation and travel into the                                                               
other nation's waters.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The Commission is designed to review current arrangements and                                                                   
renegotiate expired annexes or management agreements.  The Alaskan                                                              
North Panel (there is a Canadian Northern Panel, as well) is made                                                               
up of representatives from the Alaska Native Brotherhood, the                                                                   
recreational fishing community, the commercial gear groups, and                                                                 
fisheries managers from Alaska Department of Fish and Game.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
We discuss the issues relevant to the negotiations and work toward                                                              
a consensus to present to the Alaska Commissioner and alternate                                                                 
commissioner who act as our chief negotiators in the discussions                                                                
with Canada and the Southern United States.  Alaska's greatest                                                                  
strength has been our ability to work together..."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE interrupted to ask if Mr. Andy Ebono was on our                                                                  
Northern Panel serving native interests.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD indicated he was and noted that it was just an                                                                 
advisory panel.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEDFORD added that the Panel drives the issues as far as they                                                               
can get them, then the Commission takes them "for the final lap."                                                               
                                                                                                                                
"with all affected interests and the State of Alaska to protect                                                                 
Alaska's interests.  While other delegations insist on circling the                                                             
wagons and shooting inward, Alaskans consistently work together to                                                              
serve all of our interests.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Alaskan fisheries of relevance to the Treaty are the Southeast                                                                  
Alaska Chinook Fishery, both recreational and personal, the                                                                     
District 104 purse seine fishery (Noise Island Fishery), the                                                                    
District 101 gillnet(Tree Point) Fishery, and the Trans Boundary                                                                
River Fisheries of the Taku and Stikine Rivers.  The Commission                                                                 
also shares information about the Alsek River fishery.  A separate                                                              
body deals with Yukon River issues.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The Pacific Salmon Treaty does not deal with any subsistence                                                                    
fisheries in Alaskan waters.  Our subsistence fisheries are                                                                     
primarily in fresh water and intertidal marine waters near the                                                                  
terminal areas and, therefore, do not fit the criteria for Treaty                                                               
or Commission involvement.  Thus the decisions of the Pacific                                                                   
Salmon Commission do not affect subsistence harvests.  The fishery                                                              
of greatest importance to my fleet (I am a purse seiner) is the                                                                 
Noise Island fishery.  Tlingit and Haida peoples of the west coast                                                              
of Prince of Wales pioneered that fishery and served the first                                                                  
cannery built in Alaska in the late eighteen hundreds.  To this day                                                             
there is no distinction between native and non-native fishermen's                                                               
interests with respect to negotiations with Canada.  Our interest                                                               
is the same, to protect Alaska's right to harvest salmon in the                                                                 
sovereign waters of Alaska.  I am concerned with any approach which                                                             
would either directly or indirectly divide or dilute Alaska's                                                                   
message or provide our adversaries with the ability to exploit                                                                  
potential perceived political differences.  As I stated earlier,                                                                
our unity is our strength.  I believe that the current makeup of                                                                
the Northern Panel, along with the Alaskan Commissioners serve all                                                              
of Alaskan's interests well.  I would urge the committee to not                                                                 
pass SJR 13."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEV SHELTON, Southeast Alaska Gillnetter, said he is also                                                                   
Alaska's alternate commissioner on the Pacific Salmon Commission.                                                               
He has been involved in the Pacific Salmon Treaty since 1974.  He                                                               
endorsed everything in Mr. Bacon's statement.  He said that native                                                              
fishermen are integral to all the fisheries in Southeast Alaska.                                                                
They are leaders in the industry and are well respected.  There is                                                              
nothing that excludes them implicitly or explicitly.  The record                                                                
will show that they have been very much involved in the Treaty                                                                  
issues.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Right now would be a bad time to insert this kind of an issue in                                                                
front of the federal government.  Alaska needs support and help on                                                              
treaty related issues; it doesn't need anything that would indicate                                                             
a split that might be exploited.  The suggestion that this could be                                                             
divided along subsistence lines is bad and the suggestion that it                                                               
be divided along racial lines is hugely unfortunate.  Adding                                                                    
members would take a lot of maneuvering to even accomplish.  Each                                                               
country has four commissioners and each country decides its own                                                                 
makeup.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHELTON said he had dealt with many native fishermen and no one                                                             
had expressed any dissatisfaction about the way their interests are                                                             
being represented in this.  He reiterated that subsistence is not                                                               
an issue within the Treaty.  How fish are allocated is up to the                                                                
Board of Fisheries.  The Pacific Salmon Treaty is concerned most                                                                
with the Dixon Entrance and the troll fishery along the outer                                                                   
coast.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 15, SIDE B                                                                                                                 
Number 590                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The streams up by Yakutat are completely out of bounds as far as                                                                
the Canadians are concerned and never enter into discussions within                                                             
the Treaty.  The job of the Alaska delegation is to get the best                                                                
possible allocation for Alaska and then the issue remains to be                                                                 
dealt with internally.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE asked who our four representatives are.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHELTON said Dave Benton, Jim Pitman (non-voting federal                                                                    
representative), Curt Smitch (Advisor to Governor Lock),                                                                        
representing both Washington and Oregon, and Ron Allen who                                                                      
represents the 24 treaty tribes in Washington and Oregon.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MACKIE noted that adding another Alaskan would be two from                                                              
Alaska and only one from Washington and Oregon and one from the                                                                 
federal government.                                                                                                             

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